Level Uncaps and Overskills

[Murasaki]

So here's a question generally for everyone at or nearing the high end spectrum of the level system, but everyone else is free to put in their input.

Considering that the mysterious Level 91-100 quests seem to work as essentially a cap (I personally didn't expect to deal with the issue for at least a few more months and it's not clear what kind of quest is needed to level), should we redesign the level system in that regard? In canon, many of the Level 90 main characters have already leveled past that level, seemingly without having to do any extraordinary progress. What I'm thinking is to give the levels an AP threshold and then offer anyone past Level 90 an opportunity to embark on a quest to receive or make their own Overskill. Perhaps to make up for the high AP thresholds, each level can get its own reward. Possibly a Tier IV skill every time you level. Tier IVs were originally scrapped for Overskills but with this, there's probably enough to go around for a full tier.

Overskills may not actually be limited to Level 90s either. I'm considering the idea that at every tier increment (Level 30, 60, 90, 100?), one can receive or propose an Overskill with an effect corresponding to its tier. Overskills like Overclock would be high-end Level 90s still, while others like Nazuna's Walk on Barrier skill could be an example of Tier I or II overskills.

Possible Level Increments:

91	750 AP	520 AP
92	780 AP	540 AP
93	810 AP	570 AP
94	850 AP	610 AP
95	890 AP	660 AP
96	940 AP	720 AP
97	1000 AP	790 AP
98	1070 AP	870 AP
99	1150 AP	960 AP
100	1250 AP	1100 AP

[Deleted]

I think the main class Levels should remain as GM-run quests, or maybe 91 to 95 would be AP while the rest would be GM-run. I'd like something that would really make this feel like an MMORPG and not a big chatroom with a side order of solo grinding.

Crafting and subclass Levels may be obtained via AP though since, if they're also GM-run quests it'd be difficult to make up class-related quests for them.

Would players be allowed to max out their subclasses while their main classes remain super low leveled though? A Level 20 Samurai + Level 50 Blacksmith + Level 50 Animal Trainer would make some sense, but would a Level 20 Samurai + Level 100 Blacksmith + Level 100 Animal Trainer be okay?

As for Overskills... I have no comment.

[Haneroze]

Currently, Overskills are a feature that is limited to only those who stick around long enough to reach level 90. So for now, only Neun and Saber can get Overskills, and we all know how fast and big they both post. To many who can't write big posts like me, Overskills are essentially unreacheable. It doesn't matter how much we try training for one, we'll never get an Overskill. So I believe it do be an excellent idea to reduce it to one by tier. 

I would add, however, that Overskills should require to be 30 levels higher than the modified skill, if any. So, at level 30, you would only be able to modify a Tier 1 skill. And of course, getting an Overskill shouldn't be easily accessible, one shouldn't be able to get one in a single thread.

[Kumori]

I disagree with Roze. There needs to be something to push people towards end game. Allowing Overskills to low-level players is a slap to the face for those who actually worked for it. If you want an overskill.. get to high levels

Just because you don't write a lot does not mean you can't

[Saber]

GM Quests for 90+, Overskills for people who work for it.

If we lower the Tiers for Overskills, it should be GM Run Solo Quests, and they should not be easy. Though, they shouldn't be easy in the first place. Things like this should now be handed out, but earned. Same thing with high levels.

Though, I do think actual progression into the 90+ levels should start after a few other revisions to the site are made... and after the Storyline gets a little further along. But that's another topic entirely.

[Haneroze]

Jan 20, 2015 15:01:13 GMT Kumori said:

I disagree with Roze. There needs to be something to push people towards end game. Allowing Overskills to low-level players is a slap to the face for those who actually worked for it. If you want an overskill.. get to high levels

Just because you don't write a lot does not mean you can't

Why must there be a need to push players toward end-game? Our only goal is that every RPer on our forum enjoys RPing. And for everyone to keep their interest, they need things to do. Social and Quest threads are all fine early on, but then they eventually need new things to do that won't get repetitive. Some people can do that just fine with a lot of character development, some others are satisfied just by RPing with new players,  but for some, they need more. This is where events and level-exclusive content come in, they're there to give RPers new things to do.

Overskills are perfect for that. An overskill alone will require a lot of training, and you're not going to master one in one or two threads. It's a big content by itself. And being something rather big, just approaching its requirement level is enough to motivate anyone. Have the required level too high, and most people will just abandon the idea. Until they somehow get close to its level. But let's be realist, there's not many people that doesn't quit before the level 50 mark. And AP-wise, that's just a bit more than 1/4 of the path.

So let's say, we reduce the requirement to level 50. Suddenly, it seems far more accessible, and that's motivating to everyone. However, reaching the level alone is not sufficient. Remember, we're not handing the Overskill on a silver plate. They still have to work hard for actually learning it. Especially for the first few learners, as it is unknown to all characters if such thing is possible. So it doesn't mean everyone will just learn it at level 50, they could be spending another 10 levels before finally learning their first Overskill. 


Also, please stop with the "It's a slap to the face of everyone who actually worked for it" argument. I'm sick of hearing that argument, and it's always a bad reason to not progress toward the right direction! If there's a problem, it's necessary to fix it, and affected players would only mind if they only care about their own person. 

[Kumori]

Because for something that has been locked away for the majority of us have already been working towards getting the overskill. And it's not a bad reason. Those of us who are at higher levels have worked hard to get to where we are. EVERY game will have a grind of some sort. In this RP, it's grinding to get to level 90. If you don't want to, that's fine, you don't have to. You do not need overskills to make character development. There are several different ways to develop your character, powers doesn't have to be one. So yes, I will be miffed, very miffed at the point of not staying to RP if my effort in trying to make it to level 90 is short-sticked just because people who don't/haven't made the effort to get to the top want something that is reserved for top level players.

If you want new things to do, create your own event and run it. Don't use overskills as an excuse to give people more things to do. It's an RP. It has endless possibilities. And "a slap in the face" is a valid reason. Because people have worked for it. All 720 AP for main classes and 500 AP for the secondary classes. Socialism doesn't work... everyone has an equal opportunity to get to level 90... it's up to each person if they want to get there or not.

[Deleted]

I just gotta say... I have been at this level for quite a while and it has not been only once that I asked about getting the opportunity to level up more or to get Overskills. I never got a straight answer but I kept RPing and never left this RP, which eventually got me to Level 90 in my subclasses. I rarely used solos for my main class, I do not make huge posts my average is 500 words. I have just been really active. But why was I stuck at this endgame? What is there for me to do here? Should I just stop RPing and wait for everyone to catch up? Is this just one big chatroom with a decoration of levels and skills? Most of my main class AP came from meeting people and chatting. I want to use my player skills somehow but there is nothing to use it on except ridiculous quests that I make up too. May as well make a solo thread and fight Godzilla or something. I dont even know anymore. I would like to know why I sat on this level for months without an option to get Overskills and to level up though.

[Murasaki]

The Overskill concepts seems to be fairly unanimous from the poll and the general consensus of the high-level audience. For the time being, they will remain as high-level obtainables.

I guess it's possible for someone to specialize in an occupation without having to really raise the main class. You have expert chefs in real life who probably couldn't comprehend the first steps toward hunting an animal for food, for example. In any case, I shall begin drafts for possible ideas on 91+ quests whenever I have the time. I don't believe they'll be solo quests as you've all managed to get this far not just by your own ability but by the people around you (yes, even Saber).

[Saber]

I don't think that's really a good idea to restrict level 91+ Quests to pure-party base. I say this because it's crap. It really is. I can understand the focus on Party-playing, but not everyone in an MMO reaches max level by partying. I play MMOs almost strictly Solo or with one other friend because I hate people. People are stupid and it's a waste of time to party up with an imbecile who can't comprehend what an attack skill means. I do understand that I reached my level by partying up, but that's mainly because it's a fun time to do some quests and I got bonuses for it. However, I didn't need to. I could have solo'ed my way to the top and I was pretty close to doing it.

That being said, 91+ should be the same. Why should I be forced to play with other people when I want to level, and why should I be forced to stay at my level if I don't want to play with others? I've solo'ed RAID bosses in actual MMOs because I've been able to get good gear and I know how the play the game. The same would be in effect here. If you know how to play, have the ability to play at a higher level, and you can sustain yourself, then I can bet that you can proceed beyond level 90 solo easily. If you find that to be a lie, then give me a Level 91 Achievement quest here in the forum.

I understand that this is an RP and you should play with others, but I don't want to a lot of the time. Restricting people because of that I think is biased. And I find it extremely annoying whenever I hear "you can't solo forever", when I can. If I can play the game, I should be able to play the way I want. And that's the same for everyone else. If someone wants to party up and be buddy-buddy 100% of the time, then they can do that. But if someone wants to do something alone? All of a sudden it's taboo.

I feel like that's unfair to myself and other soloists, should there be any. The 30AP weekly restriction is fine, I can deal with that. But now you're literally saying that I have no way to level beyond 90 unless I party up with someone. I don't like it, period.

[Murasaki]

Fair enough. Sugar also agrees that it should be an option. 

I'll have solo options available as well. I'll see about making it so that party and solo quests will require roughly an equivalent amount of effort to complete.

Thanks for the inputs, please give it coming.

[Tobin]

I am personally a fan of levelling up to at least level 94 without the need of GM quests. At this moment in time I have reasons to believe that unless a system is put in place to begin offering such events (or plot progression events.) then the player should be able to earn at least one overskill via their own achievement to reflect a mastery of their own self and to act as their capstone. That they have well and truly made it to the region of vitural (pun intended) gods. Just for the moment I feel that the GM

In all honesty though, I am not fundimentally apposed to having overskills avalible earlier but in all honesty I think people do have the incentive already to level up. Level up to 31 and you get teir 2 skills which often greatly enhances your way of playing. Teir 3 skills meanwhile enable your character to obtain potent abilties that either enhance ability, offer control or power. I imagine the ultimate teir 4 offering overskills is that final level of progression that shows the refinement of that character. Which is why I am fine with overskills being above level 90 or not; there already is a lot of progression between teirs that overskills weren't really missed. ^^

Personally, my main intention is to see a overarching story for the adventurers to get their teeth sunk into. I do like social events, but lately I felt there have been an a considerable amount of them. I want my character to socially interact with others, but theres always too much pressure, too much rush to reply to all these threads that I end up really half arsing. Partly because in the end it will cut off for the new event and basically would mean my character doesn't really make a meaningful development as a result. I would feel a bit more motivated if there was an story arc, a definate threat for everyone to be weary of. Like in game of thrown's, the north isn't a constant threat but it never isn't a consideration either.

Of course I know about the next arc coming up so I am quite satisified with that. ^__^ Just for me lore and crunch is what hooks me to settings; I love the trill of writing a tale about hunting a wilderbeast beyond the realms of man; a juicy rumour, a few friends and a epic tale in the making.

[Deleted]

While I'm not against party-play and I'm not a soloist like Saber (I wouldn't have taken a tank role if I wanted to go solo), at the rate that people are reaching endgame we will never get a party for those Level 91+ things. I've been here for almost a year and how many people reached Level 90? Two. Just two. And it's not the slowness of leveling up that's hindering people. Real life things, loss of muse, plain laziness and want for things to be served to him in a silver platter. There are many reasons why a party quest would be ill-advised at this point in time. From my point of view, we don't really "need" AP boosts; it just encourages people to half-ass their posts and truth be told I can't understand some of the gibberish that people write in social threads anymore, that's why I make less Open threads when I've done a lot more in the past (Pokemon party, anyone?). What we "need" is a good arc, a continuation/follow up of events that get us going, an in-game objective for our character to move and fight and go on hot steamy dates adventures.

[Hirosame]

If I could offer my own opinion on the matter, whether it is welcome or not. I'm a fan of the idea that overskills stay as high-level only things, as well as keeping the 91+ quests as quests, not as an AP count. That being said, I also feel that the way in which they are gone about right now, open to only Level 90's. The idea of letting them be solo-inclusive is also a good idea, which I completely am in favor of. If need be, I can help GM such a thing, if asked or allowed. But, what I'd like to throw into the pool is allowing not just level 90's for the opportunity to go on these quests, but to take along anybody of a level extending to about 75. The level 90 person in question would be given the level and overskill (if applicable), and the others included can also get a feel for a high-level quest. If something comes out of it for those whom the level 90 asks to come along, that's nice, but I think anybody would appreciate the opportunity to gain more AP through writing. If anything, the Level 90 person would get the level and a chance to immediately show off their new overskill.

Now, I'm no idiot. I honestly don't think that this idea is spectacular. I just wanted to throw it out there, and see what people think.

[Deleted]

Jan 21, 2015 5:19:42 GMT Hirosame said:

But, what I'd like to throw into the pool is allowing not just level 90's for the opportunity to go on these quests, but to take along anybody of a level extending to about 75. The level 90 person in question would be given the level and overskill (if applicable), and the others included can also get a feel for a high-level quest. If something comes out of it for those whom the level 90 asks to come along, that's nice, but I think anybody would appreciate the opportunity to gain more AP through writing.

Sounds good.

Give two options: group or solo. For group, allow Level 75+ to undertake it with at least ONE Level 90. No undertaking ridiculous quests just for kicks now (coz it would add to GM workload).