Cross Classing

[Saber]

Just wanted to suggest this, as it makes FFXIV kind of interesting.

Seeing as there is the potential for a lot of Subclasses and Crafting classes to be picked from, why not have some form of cross-classing? Maybe after a player reaches a certain level, they can choose one or two skills that they can have available whenever they want. This would increase the will to play various subclasses as you would be able to use the skills whenever you wanted.

[Murasaki]

The thought has been raised not only for subclasses but main classes too, since that would allow people to switch roles to other classes if deemed needed for their party.

Do other people have opinions of this matter? It would be appreciated to help to cater to everyone while keeping things balanced.

[raiu]

It would be an interesting mix and would provide added bonuses to get to a higher level, not that I'm much to talk about...

[Mab]

The thing is, with all the liberties we already have.
- Multiple characters
- Multiple threads-
- choice from a general adventure class list

I don't really feel its needed. Besides... it would make it more murky. Less clear what people can do I mean.

I am new here. So I already have quite the hands full with the abilities of my one class... so my opinion for now.. Is that its not really needed...

Besides isn't it part of the fun to be dependent on the other classes to succeed?

[Haneroze]

@mab: The first two are liberties of RPing method. Here, we're talking about a liberty for characters themselves. Not only that, but since that option would happen late in the game, you should already be used to all the basics by the time you can do it.


Personally, I do not think it's a good addition. My reasons:
-This would increase the need of leveling. Many people would grind a subclass just to be able to use a particular skill at all time. And for most subclasses, this would pretty much mean writing something extremely repetitive and boring. I've been in many MMORPGs that had a feature like that, and while it seemed fun at first, it became my reason for quitting. Pretty sure it's going to be far worst in RP form.
-This would increase the number of subclass change claims. They're rare currently, but if there's suddenly a lot, that's a lot of workload for our mods, who are already struggling with AP and craft claims.
-We already have overskills, which will bring a lot of customization in the final levels.

[Deleted]

Jun 13, 2014 14:01:44 GMT Haneroze said:

-This would increase the need of leveling. Many people would grind a subclass just to be able to use a particular skill at all time. And for most subclasses, this would pretty much mean writing something extremely repetitive and boring. I've been in many MMORPGs that had a feature like that, and while it seemed fun at first, it became my reason for quitting. Pretty sure it's going to be far worst in RP form.
-This would increase the number of subclass change claims. They're rare currently, but if there's suddenly a lot, that's a lot of workload for our mods, who are already struggling with AP and craft claims.
-We already have overskills, which will bring a lot of customization in the final levels.

1) You're saying -need- as if this was not optional. People would 'need' it only if they 'want' it. If they don't want it, they can skip it altogether and just stick to their main class. Since Saber referred to FFXIV, I'll refer to it too. I have all of my Caster classes leveled up to 50, and they cross-classed their skills. Because I wanted it, I did it. It was not vital to my game; each class has their own skillsets that I could stick to. But then they are people who whine that 'ohhhhh it takes sooo long to level everything up to 50'... but no one's forcing them to. It's not vital to their game. It's an option that the game provided, so QQing about something -optional- doesn't make sense. Just giving something out for free, something that could make a character stronger- THAT would not make sense either. For everything that affords power, a fair amount of effort must be given.
2) This link states: " If you have already purchased an item from the shop plugin, you are automatically provisionally approved. You may then RP as though you already have your new equip/skill/subclass."
3) Keywords: FINAL levels.

As Mab said, this does not seem -needed- at the moment most especially. But that doesn't mean that the idea should be dismissed. It could be an implementation half a year, or a year from now when people probably have their characters around 80 or even past 90.

My suggestion:

Add an extra classification to skills, something like "Cross-classable" or limit the skills/tiers that each class can use. For example, a guardian would be able to cross-class only from: cleric, assassin and sorcerer (I used the classes that were in the same column as guardian). And a Guardian that has unlocked Tier II can only use Tier I skills from the crossed classes.

[Haneroze]

1) For many people, availability feels like a need. Especially if they play for competition. A game could give the option of giving one single stat point for 200 hours of boring work, and min-maxers will feel obligated to get it.

2) Doesn't change the fact that mods have to do the claim and change everything concerned in the profile.

[Ryker]

1.) It is optional. You don't have to do it if you don't want to. The choice is up to the player and if the player wants to make a big deal about it, than that's on that specific player not every other person in the game. Not everyone plays for competition either. If someone is obligated to do it, then they can do it as again, it is an optional thing. You are not forced to do it.

Here's a definition of optional, just in case:


2.) Mods don't have to change anything in the profile. You can only claim AP for the classes you currently have so if you want to level a class, you still have to switch to it and use it. The cross-classing only happens when a class reaches a certain level or based on other suggestions, what skills are able to be crossed. The only thing the mods have to change is keeping the specified skills in the profile based on what a player says. So it's actually less work on Mods because that's less skills they have to worry about removing when going through a profile.


I'll leave it up to the mods with more braincells than me at the moment to decide what dey want~ It's a simple concept but I am a little wary of its implementation. Log Horizon doesn't actually have the cross-classing ability in canon so putting this in would make this forum a little more original and it might actually boost the want for players to expand on their subclasses. Personally, I'd play a lot more stuff if it actually benefited me later and at any point. I like permanent.

[Kumori]

Where PvP has no real detriment to each rped other than a plot device, there is no "competitive" motive for people to do it simply for the betterment in battle. When one dies, they do not die entirely. You are able to use the character in another thread or the next thread, etc. Min-maxing has no benefits, at least not in this rp

[Bast]

To be honest I would quite like it for a late game change so that he could RP dabbling in magic and still having a little bit of it when he went back for lighting his way in the night and creating a spark to see if his circuits work without breaking a mana battery instead if it has problems jolting him...or if he stayed mage to have a way to inspire himself still with music.

So having the skills there to feel like the character still carried on some knowledge from there past roles seems to me a nice little thing for a RP. And since there isn't the stats implemented yet min max stat work is just on quality and levels rather than anything more diverse so thats down to rp anyway. So it will just make more diverse characters. But in a manner it will allow for a skill count far larger than previous and could play havoc with any plans on the designs for those stat sections left blank  on the character templates. And it would bring into question proficiency transfer, if a  player took up guardian and took either shield smash or mastery then swapped to a class without shield proficiency how well would the effectiveness of those skills be impaired... so somethings would have to be thought over if they were possible to transfer or not. Or would need extra text for use as cross classing skills added to them.

It could be a really fun extra aspect to late game or could be hell for the mods depending on how it was implemented(hell it could even be both).

It's not needed now but is something to think on when there are may high level players, to give them more to do that GM quests for level and yet still feel they are progressing there characters.

[Haneroze]

Seems like you guys don't understand my point. So let me give, instead, an example taken straight from our forum.

As of now, we are obligated to have three classes. Main, craft and roleplay. However, leveling it up is entirely optionnal, one could choose to focus solely on leveling the main class and leave the other two at level 1. And in fact, it would be 3 times as much faster to do so. But nearly everyone has leveled up all of them. In fact, one of us even said "Well, I have them, so might as well level them" even thought he planned to make a character based on fighting.

That's the kind of compulsion I'm taking about. And be reminded also that stats will be implemented someday with optionnal use, and Luna did say he's always compelled to min-max. Myself, I also have that kind of compulsion, so when a feature is not worth the trouble to get it, I try to assume it does not exist. And I know this won't be worth the trouble for me, unless the you can obtain it without having to level up the other subclass.


Also, mods do change quite a few things when changing subclasses. To be more specific, every mention of subclass and its level and AP, then they grey out every skill not usable anymore and white back usable skills, or add the level 1 skill if switching to a new class. And then they'd need a way to keep track of the skill that remains usable. How much time exactly it takes, I don't know, but I do know these kind of claims will become far more frequent and that's extra work for our mods.

[Kumori]

If your rp is based on leveling for main class, your rps must be either battle or battle related or unrelated to all other classes. That is to say, people who level up the subclasses do so willfully. You do not need a motive to do so other than your own. Is it available? Yes, but do you have to? No. Even in end game, you don't have to. It gives you some benefits, but is it enough for you to want to do it? It's all about what returns you are getting, and I can assure you that to get to cross-leveling, if implemented, it will be diminishing returns. That means getting 200-300 ap just for an extra skill. Yes, you have the ability to min-max, but the question is, is there really a point? PvP has no permanent death, so the returns for min-maxing are in significant. In my opinion, it just gives another character development plot