support class interest check:E P H E M E R A L | S O L A C E

[Charuen]

Hello hello! Just casually neglecting my studies here to ask those of you who play healer or support class (buffing, debuffing) characters...

Would you be interested in joining a guild that consists only of support classes? c:
Our guild name, although not yet confirmed, will be Ephemeral Solace.
We offer everyone and anyone well... solace. If they need a place to stay for a while,
or are in need of a healer for a quest or something (we are a pretty rare class!)
they can come to our guild. We also help out newbies and all that jazz.
However, we won't let our resources be taken advantage of;
once adventurers no longer need our help, we move on to help others who do.

These are just some ideas, and honestly I'd love to hear what everyone thinks.
I'm up for any changes, additions, etc. I was thinking of having a small council
set up, consisting of leader (that would be me), second in command, secretary,
treasurer, and maybe a public relations person? only once we get a lot of members though,
and those positions will probably be decided by who is most active/helps out in the guild/
some sort of election.

I plan to have lots of in character and out of character events, so look forward to that~

FOR THOSE WHO ARE NOT A PLAYING SUPPORT CLASS do not fret! We welcome all to hang out at our guild.
Maybe have some joint quests and all that jazz~
We will be neutral and aid everyone and anyone.

...Yeah. :D Post below if you're interested !

[Charuen]

Update 2
Thanks for the feedback everyone, we will accept members who are either:
1. Playing a healer class
2. Playing a support class (bard, enchanters, summoners)
3. Play a non healer or support class, but have a support build (that helps with HP regeneration, buffs, debuffs, etc.)
4. Playing a non healer or support class, but have a support RP subclass:
- apothecary
- dancer
- priest
- housekeeper
- gardener
- exorcist
- sigilmaker
- scholar
5. Playing a non healer or support class, but have one of the following crafting classes: Alchemist, Pharmacist, Chef, Scribe

Update 1
Changing guild concept from being healers-only to welcoming all support classes. :)
Support classes at this moment include all 3 healer classes, bards, enchanters, and summoners.


________________________________________

Interested
Lavinia
@serenityspace
Khaleesi
kittygrey


Potential Interest // Association w/ the guild
Dr. Ultima

[Deleted]

I am interested~ ^.^

[Charuen]

@serenityspace and I noticed that a lot of people had reservations about how successful (size wise) a healers only guild would be! And honestly, while I can see the guild growing to become a strong one regardless of size, it would be a nice to have a substantial amount of members. Thus, Dorian suggested that we become a support-focused guild. A guild for healers, buffers, debuffers, etc. ^^

I'm going to change the title of this thread, and if you think you fit the bill join us in this thread~ Or even if you don't play a support class/don't really have an interest joining our guild and you feel like you have some good ideas come and post them in here. c:

Also I was thinking we would be a semi non profit guild. That is, our healer services would be for free and we'll heal/support and accompany adventurers on their quests for free unless they are extremely difficult quests, or a raid. In which case, guild members will decide on what their fees are (be it gold or a rare item from the raid or something). In order to raise money to keep this all going, we can have some sort of shop open that sells crafts or something~

[Deleted]

I can understand why you'd be interested in starting a support guild, and I think there may be some potential, but the problem I see is that it is also very unnecessary and could complicate many things. Let's look at a comparison of how things could play out if you guys had your Support Guild as opposed to if you didn't.

First off, if you do have your guild, then it can be a bit easier to organize supporters, and people will know who to go to if they need a support class to join for a Raid or something. The problem however is that it seems unnecessary and has many problems in its execution, namely in AP bonuses. Let's say I planned a Raid for Noihara to run, but our healers were on vacation, or busy with school, whatever excuse. We would come to your guild and hire a Cleric or two, but the problem would be that your guild members wouldn't get the AP bonus, as well as the supports we hire may be total strangers to their employers. A party runs much smoother if the members know each other and their styles, as opposed to just being a pick-up group.

If you don't have your guild: It would be more difficult to organize supporters, as one or two guilds may end up getting them all (but realize not all support players will join a guild) and then it feels a bit odd asking for their services. If supporters join other guilds, then back with my example of the Noihara Raid: They will operate much more smoothly and they will get the AP bonus.

My personal opinion is that such a guild as this is unnecessary and would only complicate things.

[Charuen]

@dumah You're right, AP bonus is absolutely lovely and my members might not be able to get any if hired by another guild. However, I like to think that this lost is negated through healers (if they choose to do so) asking for a fee such as gold or an item from the raid as payment. In the event that they do not ask for any sort of payment, then yes, they won't really have anything extra to gain from it. However, raid roleplaying threads do not make up a majority of the threads on Log Horizon. If anything, social and mentor threads do. Members of this potential guild can earn AP bonus through mentor threads, which I expect we would be doing often due to the values of our guild, as well as from social threads. I plan on creating many guild social threads which will allow us to have the AP bonus.

You also mention that a party might not run as smooth with hired support classes. While that may be true, we must remember that this is a roleplaying forum. It is fun to roleplay out victories and successes, but the good stuff-- the character development, the failures, the creation of friendships and brother-in-arms relationships are moments where we can really write out some beefy (both in quality and quantity) posts. If anything, I think that the bit of tension from working with those not from your own guild will enhance the roleplaying experience. :) In fact, going back to the AP-bonus thing, you gave me a great idea. What if a bunch of healers and support groups decided to go on a quest together to pick up some rare herbs for crafting purposes? Logically speaking not a good idea since we have no tank or dps, but think of all the fun memories that will be made! We may not (or maybe we will, who knows!) complete our goal, but we'll have some fun inside jokes to talk about when we settle back down in the guild house... plus AP bonus. ;D

[Deleted]

I said quite a few comments last night on what I thought about the guild, and my statement still stands.

I think it is kind of a waste of time to have a guild solely based around support/healer classes, just as I think that a guild based around just getting information is a waste. I understand where you're coming from, but i think you should just nix the idea.

Instead of having a dozen smaller and near non-existant guilds, you should talk to current guild leaders and see if they would be willing to have a sub-group co-lead by you in their guild. As the way guilds are now, I think the only true active guilds could be considered Noihara and possibly Apocrypha. They are both very /general/ guilds with subsections in each guild, and they barely have enough active members. Do you really think that you're going to be able to have an active guild with such a narrow field in mind. Yes you say that all people are welcome, but you have nothing to offer the other people.

Also there are people NOT in guilds who are willing to join raids and just get paid in the AP that they'll make, and leaders are more likely to go to those people.

I think you should look into becoming a specialized portion of another guild than a separate guild itself. You would have the support of a guild as well as probably a home, and there would be a larger pool of people to work. I don't see any of the guild leaders having a problem with you asking even if its just to get information. They'd probably welcome the aspect of getting more guild members.

[Deleted]

Oct 20, 2015 23:39:27 GMT @shadowsaiph said:

I think it is kind of a waste of time to have a guild solely based around support/healer classes, just as I think that a guild based around just getting information is a waste. I understand where you're coming from, but i think you should just nix the idea.

I have to agree with Sayha here; while I understand wanting to support the Support-class niche, I feel like there are too many flaws and not enough benefits.

Instead of having a dozen smaller and near non-existant guilds, you should talk to current guild leaders and see if they would be willing to have a sub-group co-lead by you in their guild.

Again, I agree. I would much rather see four guilds with twenty members than twenty guilds with four members, just as a random example. I also believe you would be better off talking to a current guild master and asking to join their guild - I say this not to recruit for Noihara but as my genuine belief. Noihara would honestly love to have more support users with us.

As the way guilds are now, I think the only true active guilds could be considered Noihara and possibly Apocrypha.

You're too kind, Sayha~ <3

Yes you say that all people are welcome, but you have nothing to offer the other people.

This is another thing that confused me, you state that your guild is focused on support classes, but you allow any and all people to join. That kind of contradicts itself, and if you followed through with that, then your Support Guild would end up with many DPS and Tanks tainting the mixture. You should have something to give incentive to those players who join but are not supporters. In Noihara, the way we do this is by having a branch for players who do not want to be crafters, nor raiders: The Noihara Adventurers League. Many players may not want to craft or raid, and thus the Noihara Adventurers League gives them incentive by issuing out quests and being free agents, having the benefits of being Noiharans while doing work for others who may need it.

I understand why you're so interested in a guild such as this Charuen, I honestly do, but the problem is in its execution. I feel there are too many holes. You have a concept and an ideal execution, but there are many flaws and holes without any answers or solutions.

[Charuen]

Ah, I'm sorry to hear you still think it's a bad idea. :c Of course you are totally entitled to your opinion but perhaps we'll have to agree to disagree at this point. ><
I don't want you to think that I haven't taken what you said into account! Being part of an existing guild instead of being an individual one definitely has its perks,
but due to some personal reasons, I really only have one guild that I can choose from and I don't feel like the vision those interested in this guild (as well as my own)
have in mind fit with that one other guild's vision. ><

Regarding guilds who go to adventurers who are not in guilds when looking for supporters/healers, I totally understand that! In-game wise that would make a lot of
sense since you don't want to split the bounty or whatnot. Keep in mind though that like I said previously, members of my guild will get to choose if they want to
work for a fee or not. They can totally offer to work for free if they choose to and we encourage it too. Like I mentioned above, our main way of making money
will most likely be from crafting and research. :) Moreover, wouldn't it be fun to roleplay and create stories with characters who aren't in the same guild
as you, to roleplay out your character trying to get along with someone from another guild who might have different values as you, etc. ? This guild offers more
than just in-game perks like helping adventurers beat raid bosses. We are here for character development, formation of relationships, etc. ^^!!

Lastly, those interested in this guild so far have ranged from level 1 - level 80. We have a lot of lower level characters in the site currently, but not that many high level characters.
I don't feel like people won't come to us because if you need a high level healer or buffer... well, this guild might have one of the few, or perhaps the only,
healer or buffer on the site. Note that this is NOT me trying to monopolize anyone, because again, we aim to be non profit, help-everyone, etc. Our goal isn't glory or
gold or weapons... It's to be a neutral group who are just nice people that want to help everyone. ~

I hope I helped clear up some of your reservations about this, but I understand if you would still like to think otherwise. ^^

@shadowsaiph

( I think I also addressed Dumah's worries in this post-- I posted right after you did Dumah oAo )

[Charuen]

@dumah

Hmm, at this point I don't see any holes like you've mentioned, that I have yet to address with a solution. c:
Also we are open to all support classes, not all classes. I think we have agreed to accept all healer classes, enchanters, bards, and summoners. ^^
That can be subject to change though o:

[Deleted]

While I do agree that there are a lot of guilds for the smaller community we have that is interested in Guilds, I don't think it's a good idea to ever, ever tell anyone they are wasting their time by trying something new or suggesting a new idea. It is never a waste of time to want to try and bring activity and ideas to the forum, ever. Even if it's a silly idea in the end, the effort is worth so much for the health of the forum. Don't be discouraged, Harmonie. Please, everyone, try and remember to be kind and constructive with your thoughts.

I, for one, like the idea. I do agree there may be some issues with the AP thing but, if the idea took off perhaps additional suggestions can be made for solutions. I believe a guild may have an alliance with as many other guilds as it likes, provided the gold and other requirements are fulfilled and, last I checked, there was an AP bonus specifically for Alliance threads. A new type of bonus could also be suggested for "Guild Cooperation" or something of the like (would need reviewed and approved, of course).

I say if there are enough members to get this off the ground, give it a shot!

[Dr. Ultima]

While I totally understand Sayha's points toward the benefits of large guilds and they are valid points for sure, as a counter point, many of these large guilds do not last because they have so many subsections and no clear mission. Being too narrow is just as dangerous as trying to do everything.

What I see from Charuen's idea is a good rp opportunity to explore what being a healer means in this world. As far as I know, and honestly I don't know much, there are no hospitals in the rp and there are no aid organizations like The Red Cross. Storyline wise, this guild has the potential to be both while also serving a function like Crescent Moon toward lower levels. Mentor threads ahoy, (I believe there's been a pretty high demand for mentors as of late).

I don't want to put words in Chauren's mouth as this is not my idea and doubly so because I might already be obligated toward another guild, but I do think the idea can be capitalized on in a lot of interesting ways. Search and rescue, helping landers, supporting adventurers it might be fun to play General Hospital. Non-profit would be the way to go though, a charity might be interesting.

My only concern is there would even be enough active healers to pull this off. Even if this cannot function as a guild it could for sure function along the same lines that The Debauchery Tea Party did, an unofficial confederation founded on an ideal.

-just my 2 cents.

[Charuen]

@sugarygiggles : <3 <3 <3
Thank you for saying that, it really means a lot. Truly, from the bottom of my heart ~
I'm happy to say we found a solid number of interested adventurers already, and I'm sure it will only increase from there. ^^
(second post has been updated with interested parties)
Thanks to everyone who voiced their concerns though, we will be making the guild an even better place from what you guys pointed out! : )

edit:

Dr. Ultima
yup, like you said it's going to be non profit/charity! the only way we will be raising funds is through selling crafts/research/ donations !
I'm glad you think it's a good idea. c:

[Deleted]

I simply speak what I think but you're right to each have their own opinion; what I stated earlier is simply mine. My reservations remain, and I agree with Dumah that there are a lot of holes that need to be worked, but I feel you won't see them until the guild is actually made and gets going.

[Deleted]

Arty beat me to what I wanted to say, but I agree wholeheartedly with what she has said here. Tact is key in any conversation, and while nothing said in any of the previous posts was meant to be harmful or disrespectful, I am sure, being careful of how you say it makes a huge difference. /socialcorrectnessrant I learned things at work today, shhh.

ANYWAY. What am I, a Druid? I don't even remember anymore. Too many characters. I like the idea of a Support/Healer guild. I'll admit that I have never made it a priority to learn the mechanics of a LOT of how things work here. I've never even posted an AP claim and I have five characters. But even if you were worried about AP bonuses, Harmonie--and you really don't seem to be prioritizing it--I'm sure something could be worked out. Even with threads designed around getting a guild bonus (a terrible reason to make a thread if that's the sole reason, in my opinion--it's about fun, not numbers), if there are at least three members in any guild, all guilds involved get the bonus.

Also, as Arty said, Alliance Bonuses are apparently pretty great. It's all up to your personal preference, Harmonie. I like the idea, it seems nice and for those who really take the Support/Healer roles to heart, like me, it might be a nice place to call their own. If you want to build an Alliance, that seems like a very good option that might even be more beneficial in the long run than just joining some other guild as a sub-group. What good is a guild idea if you're having someone else's rules thrown at you, eh?

[Deleted]

I'm totally supportive of this if it takes off; as Ultima said, there are opportunities for it non-combat-wise.

inb4 level 90 Cleric with Dr. House face claim

[Charuen]

Thank you for saying that @pollipop ! ^^
You're right -- like you said, another reason that I don't want to join an existing guild as a sub group is because I want to be able to make my own political decisions. We want to be able to offer help to anyone and everyone. It would be really sad if we couldn't help out some people because of a guild rivalry or something. ><

also totally not shamelessly recruiting or anything but if you want to join the guild that would be yknow, totally cool. but no pressure or anything ;3

@dumah Yup, that's our goal. Not combat.... but everything else. c:

[Deleted]

I just thought of something: What exactly defines a Support Class? I'm not trying to get deep and/or philosophical here, but I remember Dorian explaining his Shaman build as a DPS build. I see he is one of those Adventurers who expressed interest in your guild's concept, so it made me wonder what exactly defines a support class in your eyes. For example, you listed the support classes as "all healer classes, enchanters, bards, and summoners." Suppose someone took a Cleric for a more tanky build, or some other out-of-class build example. Would a DPS-build Summoner count?

I hope this doesn't seem as though I am grasping at straws to find an issue in your idea, it's really not what I am trying to do, I just thought of this suddenly and thought I might ask.

[Charuen]

@dumah: Hey no problem! Totally valid question. ^^ I actually posted the answer earlier. You can also check my first two posts, I do believe I mentioned it there. :)

OR if you don't wanna do that, I believe what we agreed on as of the moment are:

All 3 healer classes, enchanter, bard, and summoner. We don't really care about builds, we aren't a build class. We just focus on classes~ (Besides, picking people based on builds would be suuuper... picky. oAo)

[Deleted]

Not to gripe, but I think it'd be the other way around, honestly: denying entry due to class seems more picky. Not that I'd expect you to deny anyone who was interested the right to join. While a lot of support builds are very unorthodoxed, I think having the mindset of a support player is what counts. Buuuuuut at the same time, a weird build might not be very helpful to a party. You said you were focused less on combat, but I can see where having an effective and efficient build would be desirable.

In the end, acceptance of members is up to you, based on whatever you want to base it on (*assumes general ethics would, of course, be upheld*), but builds and classes should probably be something that is very carefully considered both when applying to become and approving guild members.