Roleplay Subclass Ideas

[Murasaki]

I had a random idea just a little while ago that might help solve the subclass dilemma that many subclasses are receiving. Especially with skills coming out every 10 levels and many of the skill lists incomplete, people are hardly leveling subclasses due to the higher effort needed to attain the skills they otherwise would want. I wanted to reincorporate the idea of allowing characters to branch into certain subclasses without making the skill amounts as overwhelming as my original idea (that one will likely be used for crafting subclass customization instead).

What's the idea? The new level cap for each individual roleplay subclass will be 30 and characters may now designate three active roleplay subclasses.

Changes involved:
- Roleplay subclasses will start at a basic tier at Level 1 and receive additional tier bonuses at Level 10, Level 20, and Level 30. These "tiers" are similar to the main class tiers and typically mean that the subclass will gain new skill(s) and functionalities. This also makes it easier for me to implement more lower-level effects for existing subclasses, as it means I won't have to adjust and move skills around.
- You may choose three of these subclasses and level them up individually. If you should happen to level more than 3 roleplay subclasses, you will only benefit from the effects of the three subclasses you designate as "active" subclasses.
- Leveling of each subclass will be the same 1-30 pace as before, so you can easily cap all three subclasses in a short amount of time compared to a normal Lv90 class.
- A Lune character will only have a boost to one of their roleplay subclasses starting out. The others start at Level 1.
- Anyone whose current roleplay subclass level is higher than 30 will be able to redistribute any extra AP to other roleplay subclasses accordingly.
- I'm currently debating on whether I should limit subclass branching to the subclass trees described in this post (open to moving some subclasses around accordingly). What does everyone think?

Benefits:
+ All the customization that people wanted are now available. Wanted to play a pure fighter and take Bodyguard/Berserker/Cavalier? Prefer to be a survivalist with Hunter/Gardener/Fisherman?
+ Allows for subclass perks to be expanded more manageably in the future.
+ Benefits are more apparent and results are quicker to see.

Downsides:
- A small increase in work needed for members and mods to organize and keep track of individual roleplay subclass levels.
- Might be slightly cluttered in the mini-profile on the side of your posts. Any suggestions for how to organize it?


Vote and comment with your thoughts about this idea.

[Deleted]

I definitely like the idea of having more than 1 RP subclass active at a time. The subclass branching sounds like a lot of work for upkeep and such. Maybe instead of branches, you can choose one of two or three abilities for that level (kind of like the talent system in WoW). That way maybe each person's version of their subclass is able to be slightly different from each other.

[Sark]

I like it! By capping roleplay classes at 30 it means the skills can remain "flavourful" rather than "impressive." It also means each skill can be quite tailored to the particular RP class, allowing cavaliers to be focused just on their mount, couriers to be focused on delivering items, etc etc.

If this makes character creation too cumbersome, or the user panel on the left hand side, you could also say somethign like "At main class 1 you have 1 RP class, at main class 30 you unlock a second RP class, and main class 60 you unlock a third RP class" ... not sure if that would encourage elitism, or if that would just let newer characters have time to flourish.

[Deleted]

This seems like a great idea! I do however like the idea Sayha posed; more customisation with skills will allow for people to branch out further and create more diversity when it comes to the Adventurers. More player choice is always good, but of course, there is the issue of it becoming too hard to manage all of the new branches of the system.

[Sark]

Only drawback of the "choose which skill" style (like the tiers within main class) means that each skill has to be different, and each skill needs to be useful.

At the moment there are some classes where there is the basic and then true version of the skill.

[Fletcher]

I think that given the RP subclasses don't do much comparitively to the crafting ones or the main classes, that picking them freely seems fine if you're given three. I know personally I'd like to have a couple RP classes but can't because I'm only locked into one.

[Icyferno]

Thinking on it, many subclasses don't have skills leading up to level 90, so dropping the max level to 30 should be good since there is lesser need to come up with more skills.

If we're going ahead with this change, we should raise the subclass AP requirement to match the main class AP scaling, at the very least. If not, it might be too easy to burn through all the subclasses.

I feel that not limiting subclasses to branches would give rise to a bunch of more unique builds, as each subclass provides utility in a different way. Locked subclass branches is essentially the same as having one subclass, except you merged some skills, changed some level caps and give people a skill list to choose from (if there are surplus skills).

[Valandil]

I do like the idea as well for what it's worth. The added customization and specialization can lead to a larger variety of builds and roleplay diversity. The specialization especially appeals to me - I like to pick my skills/classes to compliment each other, but still be unique. Furthermore, as such the lesser played classes might be taken now because they have secondary and tertiary utility.

[Noctis Corvo]

[Capsule]

I could get behind this. There are a few subclasses that have caught my eye, including the elusive Spy subclass. I am concerned how level scaling for tamed monsters would work, though, as their levels currently scale with the AT level. Would that be amended to scale with the main level, or added as the level 30 skill?

[Murasaki]

Some example changes as far as AT goes:
- Pacify is now a Level 1 tier effect, along with Scout.
- Domesticize now starts with 2 slots.
- You get 2 more slots at Level 20 and 30 (for a max of 6)
- Tamed monsters' level may reach a maximum level cap equal to the Animal Trainer's main class level or Animal Trainer's subclass level, whichever is higher.

[Dr. Ultima]

I like the idea, especially the capping at level 30, but i kind of question if it isn't too flexible. Cavalier vs Berserker should represent a choice in philosophy in combat style for instance. Having both seems kind of weird and hurts the flavor of both. I do think this will help some of the 'forgotten' classes though. A tracker is kind of a better courier anyway you slice it so long as you are delivering mail from one town to another. Maybe pick 2? 1 from each discipline style? A Berserker Dancer is suddenly something very strange and interesting for example. A Chevalier Merchant uses his money to protect others, Noblesse Oblige.

[Sark]

Oct 31, 2015 4:51:25 GMT Dr. Ultima said:

I like the idea, especially the capping at level 30, but i kind of question if it isn't too flexible. Cavalier vs Berserker should represent a choice in philosophy in combat style for instance. Having both seems kind of weird and hurts the flavor of both. I do think this will help some of the 'forgotten' classes though. A tracker is kind of a better courier anyway you slice it so long as you are delivering mail from one town to another. Maybe pick 2? 1 from each discipline style? A Berserker Dancer is suddenly something very strange and interesting for example. A Chevalier Merchant uses his money to protect others, Noblesse Oblige.

"reverse branching" so to speak? Where instead of choosing several classes within a branch, only being able to choose 1 class per branch (at most). This might damage a few 'specialist' options like merchant-advertiser or dancer-courtesan, but depending on how things are organised I could get behind that.

I'd also be happy with just 2 role play classes~

[Dr. Ultima]

Yeah, maybe just pick 2 would be enough honestly. Point taken.

[Bailin]

So, to me this all sounds really cool and nice, but what has me a bit concerned (though probably unfounded): Wouldn't this absolve the need for certain players to interact together? (ie: I can get all the stuff I need myself rather than have someone else help me)

[Murasaki]

No one is great at everything. The main classes primarily dictate your primary role and while builds and subclass choices do influence how much of a tank/healer/DPS/support you are, there is still only a certain amount that you can cover your weaknesses. In any case, let's make an example of a self-sufficient build. You're a Monk who goes Tailor to cover your armor. You take Sigilmaker to boost yourself since you don't wear much armor. You decide that Berserker is good for helping you do more damage. Maybe Acrobat to jump around. Sure, you've made a build that helps yourself and others decently well.

Here's some notable things you miss out on:
- Every other crafting class. Pharmacists for potions for example.
- Cheaper costs when buying things. (Accountant, Farmer, Merchant)
- Extra utility and ability to protect allies (Bodyguard, Pathfinder, Scholar)
- Alternate battle styles (Gunslinger, Hunter, Exorcist, Puppeteer)
- Taming animals and use them in combat (Animal Trainer)
- Out of combat utility (Courtesan, Gardener, Housekeeper, Sage)

Plenty of things you miss out on even when you are able to pick 3 roleplay subclasses.

But that's not my main point. It's that thinking in an overly self-sufficient mindset is a trap. If you come in the RP with the mindset that you don't need other people, then you'll run into other troubles like becoming distant to the community or finding that you've run out of people to RP with. Take some of the people who tried to come up with broken class combinations as an example. They planned so much and talked so big that they put out elitist attitudes because of it. And then when no one wanted to RP with them anymore, they disappeared.

This makes me think about the SAO RP some of us were originally on. You only had 4 skill slots and some of the skills available were clearly better than the others. What was the result? Most people decided that they'd play it smart and pick the best combinations. 1 Weapon Skill proficiency, 1 Armor Skill proficiency, and then two top-tier skills like Perception, Tracking, or Acrobatics. Now you have a bunch of people with the same exact setup. Some skills like Cooking, Fishing, Performing were hardly taken. The site was full of Kiritos and I can easily outline the majority of quests being 5 posts long: 1 post of introduction, 3 posts of fighting monsters, and then 1 post saying goodbye. No room for character development or building relations unless you actually tried. The endgoal for many people eventually became to min-max all your quests so you could eventually join a raid with people you hardly related to.

It's totally fine how you want to build your character. Just make sure that in the progress, you don't start judging other people simply by their class choices and don't limit yourself in choosing your RP partners whether they're "useful" to you or not.

[Bailin]

Thank you, that's pretty much all I had to say/ask on the matter (and as predicted, unfounded, yay :D). I'm looking forward to the end result :)